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View Full Version : ZRX1200 IGNITION ADVANCERS ???????



RETROBOY
6th August 2012, 08:33 AM
Has anyone fitted one of these ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-ZRX1100-ZRX1200-ZRX1200R-ZRX-4-Degree-Ignition-Advancer-Rotor-Gasket-/251124036820?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a7828b4d4

The description sounds convincing & does make sense. I know a few people with XJR1300's who have fitted these and said it DOES make a noticeable difference with benefits on smooth running & starting.

Also.............the guy mentions disconnecting the K-Tric device once fitted for better running.???????

Any advice or expreiences appreciated.

Pete

Pal
6th August 2012, 09:55 AM
That is the advancer offered by Kwick, a member here and an admin on the OA. You might get a better deal through the members offers section here.

steven rose
6th August 2012, 10:13 AM
http://kwickstand.net/Hyper-Formance.com/Welcome.html

96shox
9th August 2012, 11:53 PM
yupp,, listed under advancerman

http://kwickstand.net/Hyper-Formance.com/AdvancerMan.com.html

KWICK
16th August 2012, 01:47 AM
Hi Guys!
You'll love 'em, guaranteed :-)

Pete/KWICK/AdvancerMan

exesspeed
20th August 2012, 05:20 PM
Hi Kwick .

How are these on a tuned 1200. With high comp. and Zzr cams .

Cheers

Mark

Pal
20th August 2012, 08:31 PM
Hi Kwick .

How are these on a tuned 1200. With high comp. and Zzr cams .

Cheers

Mark

How high is the CR?

If you have ZZR pistons and lost the BG, it will be fine, if you have serious CR, he does a 2 degree one as well, that may work better.

96shox
20th August 2012, 08:40 PM
I think its recommended to use 2degrees for hi-compression

KWICK
21st August 2012, 12:58 AM
I think its recommended to use 2degrees for hi-compression

Correct 12:1 or 12.5:1 run the +2
11:1 or less +4
Cheers,
KWICK

TREVOR9
24th August 2012, 09:21 AM
So which is best for a standard motor, 2 or 4 degrees,and what is the difference performance wise if any?

Pal
24th August 2012, 10:34 AM
4 degree for a stock motor, no BHP increase, you may get better pick up.

KWICK
26th August 2012, 01:21 AM
4 degree for a stock motor, no BHP increase, you may get better pick up.

FactoryPro has dyno runs on a stock ZRX1200 and a +4 making 1 to 2 hp more...DynoJet hp is about 20% more, 1.2 to 2.4...from idle to the revlimiter.

http://kwickstand.net/Hyper-Formance.com/FactoryPro_Stuff_files/DC_kawasaki,zrx1200,RED,wIGNB20ADV,BLUE,wo20IGN20a dvance.jpg

Plus, you pick up gobs of 3000-5000 rpm throttle response. There is no downside.

They are twenty five bucks, money back guarantee, I have sold hundred with no takers. :-)

exesspeed
27th August 2012, 09:57 PM
Hi Kwick

I Will have one if the 2 Deg ones plz,Im away at the min but Im back next week , can you let me know via pm how much it is deliverd to the UK.

Any one after a factory pro 4 deg advancer lol.

Thanks

Mark

exesspeed
27th August 2012, 10:00 PM
How high is the CR?

If you have ZZR pistons and lost the BG, it will be fine, if you have serious CR, he does a 2 degree one as well, that may work better.

Hi Pal

Mine is running 12.5.1 compression.

Mark

Darren
27th August 2012, 10:07 PM
Oi mark..... Thought I was buying it off you! :-)

exesspeed
27th August 2012, 10:14 PM
Yea it was just a comment dude. If it fits the 1100 you can.

Will the factory pro 4 deg advancer fit the 1100. As i need a 2 deg one off kwick .

Pal
27th August 2012, 11:49 PM
Hi Pal

Mine is running 12.5.1 compression.

Mark
Not being funny but are you actually running 12.5 or you think you are?
Have you accuratley measured your CC with a burrette?
If you are running pistons that are 12.5 in a ZZR, and you have unshrouded your valves then you are riunning under 12, so the 4 degree will be fine.
The combustion chamber volume in a ZZR is so much smaller than the ZRX, it makes a huge difference.

I ran close to 13 actual with a 4 degree on normal unleaded and it was fine.

KWICK
29th August 2012, 01:25 AM
$25.00 plus $17.95 shipping to the UK. Add $6.38 if you'd like a gasket.
Cheers,
Pete

exesspeed
1st September 2012, 12:08 PM
Not being funny but are you actually running 12.5 or you think you are?
Have you accuratley measured your CC with a burrette?
If you are running pistons that are 12.5 in a ZZR, and you have unshrouded your valves then you are riunning under 12, so the 4 degree will be fine.
The combustion chamber volume in a ZZR is so much smaller than the ZRX, it makes a huge difference.

I ran close to 13 actual with a 4 degree on normal unleaded and it was fine.


Hi Pal

I know your not being funny man.
No its running measured high compression, done with a burrette all the work was done by a prof engine tuner ive know for 30 years a very good friend of mine.

Marky

exesspeed
1st September 2012, 12:09 PM
$25.00 plus $17.95 shipping to the UK. Add $6.38 if you'd like a gasket.
Cheers,
Pete

Hi Kwick

I will sort it this weekend for you, just back from the Manx GP been on the island for a week so im pretty tired at min

marky

KWICK
2nd September 2012, 07:42 AM
Yea it was just a comment dude. If it fits the 1100 you can.

Will the factory pro 4 deg advancer fit the 1100. As i need a 2 deg one off kwick .

ZRX1100 and 1200 with stock ignition both take the same rotor.

exesspeed
2nd September 2012, 01:22 PM
Payment seny Kwick

Greentween
3rd September 2012, 03:32 PM
I wouldnt get rid of the factory pro one just yet if i were you. I think you wanted to go lower in advance from the aftermarket one you now have from reading your posts. I think you may be surprised about the ELS2 rotor:

http://youtu.be/GvVBP1GgOGs
then
http://youtu.be/Mz-9q3e_7Wo

If you want 2 over stock, try to find a motofab rotor. Motofab rotors are made and were sold as +2 from stock (yea Ted engraved a 4 on them). I know as I used to make them for Motofab and have Teds CAD file. Alternativly, you could just modify the one you have now. Watch my ZZR video for info on how to do that. If you have an adjustable timing light (or can borrow one), check the aftermarket one you now have.

It is nice to see an alternative ZRX web site, where the moderators don't have a vested interest in what is posted on the forum, and edit what was wrote. Or just simply delete your post as it may affect how may aftermarket parts he could sell.

KWICK
3rd September 2012, 07:50 PM
This guy follows me around...one post on the ZRXOC...

My +4 advancer and FactoryPro's discontinued +4 one are exactly the same. The +2 he had was the very first one I shipped, I sent out 5 +2's that were about 3 degrees, and I got all but one back and sent out replacements. I sent a replacement for this one also after I found who's it was. We only had an issue with one +2 advancer...It happened to be the one this guy tested, but where/how he got +5 advance out of it I have no idea.

Many guys on the ZRXOA have tested their advancers with an adjustable advance light and they have all independently tested as advertised.

If you do not think my advancer performs as advertised, please return it for a refund. I have sold over 850 so far with zero returns. They get great reviews from everyone...but this guy.

Greentween
3rd September 2012, 11:02 PM
I bought your +4 in april 2012 and in comparison to the older #2 I tested, the new one was exactly 2 degrees more on the optical comparator and CNC indexer. The timing light test confirmed it was 16 deg btdc not 14. Seems to me one should be cautious when using these with high compression. If there is a video of them being correct stated advance with a timing light, please post the link.

http://youtu.be/FFVHy_yQPX8

Pal
3rd September 2012, 11:10 PM
Now now boys play nice.

Now I know there is some background between Ted and Kwick over advancers, I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of it, and frankly I don't care, but if the same war of words comes over here, as happened on the OA, some people are gonna get hit with the ban stick.

exesspeed
10th September 2012, 07:31 PM
I bought your +4 in april 2012 and in comparison to the older #2 I tested, the new one was exactly 2 degrees more on the optical comparator and CNC indexer. The timing light test confirmed it was 16 deg btdc not 14. Seems to me one should be cautious when using these with high compression. If there is a video of them being correct stated advance with a timing light, please post the link.

http://youtu.be/FFVHy_yQPX8

Bloody interesting links. Can't argue with what you did or you're conclusion either. I've ordered a 2 deg one. I will do a test sometime and let you know the res.

Good post.

exesspeed
10th September 2012, 08:03 PM
Also Greent i liked your YouTube clip on how and where to alter the std zzr one too.

Thanks for the info.

Mark

KWICK
11th September 2012, 12:30 AM
Seriously, this has been tested by numerous ZRXOA members, everyone elses' tested fine. :doh:

Remember, this is from the guy who designed an actual +2 advancer, with a +4 marking on it, for Ted383/MotoFab.

Anyway, with stock compression, you want to run my +4
With 12:1 or 12.5:1, run my +2
You will love the results, guaranteed!

PALESAINT
11th September 2012, 01:43 PM
Can someone explain one thing.

To what extent if any does fuel quality come into this? Over here you can buy high octane so the choice is between 95 - 102 (BP) octane although obviously you need decent compression to make the most of the latter. BMW bike ECUs have an anti knock auto advance retard which is fuel quality dependent, hence the question.....

BruceJ
12th September 2012, 08:19 AM
Can someone explain one thing.

To what extent if any does fuel quality come into this? Over here you can buy high octane so the choice is between 95 - 102 (BP) octane although obviously you need decent compression to make the most of the latter. BMW bike ECUs have an anti knock auto advance retard which is fuel quality dependent, hence the question.....

I think that the advancers referred to here are only for those systems that are not related to ECU's/fuel injection and so on. Thus only for 'mechanical' systems/carb related types.

So....timing advancers like these can't work on BMW's.............I have a BMW (Fi/ECU equiped) so I know.

Pete Aronson's (Kwick) 4 deg. really works (I have one on the Rex), luv it !!

It's interesting to note that when you lay this one over the OEM unit, you can really see the difference. However, if you lay the one from Ted over the OEM one, there is very,very little difference. I also have one of these so I know AND there is a real difference in the performance feel. Pete's one is way ahead. Also I have disconnected the K-Tric thingy on Pete's advice....what a positive difference compared to it being connected. The added side effect is better fuel consumption too.

Pal
12th September 2012, 01:23 PM
Can someone explain one thing.

To what extent if any does fuel quality come into this? Over here you can buy high octane so the choice is between 95 - 102 (BP) octane although obviously you need decent compression to make the most of the latter. BMW bike ECUs have an anti knock auto advance retard which is fuel quality dependent, hence the question.....

Kawasaki have to set the bike up to run in all countries that it is sold. Our bikes in stock trim would run on the stuff from a back street garage in Tajikistan. Having access to better quality fuel means that we can run with more advance, which is why advancers like Teds and Kwicks work so well.

Pal
12th September 2012, 01:26 PM
Pete Aronson's (Kwick) 4 deg. really works (I have one on the Rex), luv it !!

It's interesting to note that when you lay this one over the OEM unit, you can really see the difference. However, if you lay the one from Ted over the OEM one, there is very,very little difference. I also have one of these so I know AND there is a real difference in the performance feel. Pete's one is way ahead. Also I have disconnected the K-Tric thingy on Pete's advice....what a positive difference compared to it being connected. The added side effect is better fuel consumption too.
You are comparing Kwick advancer with the K-Tric disconnected to Ted's with the K-Tric on, hardly a fair comparison.

Anyway a wise man once told me, the naked eye cannot detect a two degree difference in adavancers, I wonder if he'll remember telling me that, or will I have to dig the post out on the OA

Pal
12th September 2012, 01:31 PM
Seriously, this has been tested by numerous ZRXOA members, everyone elses' tested fine. :doh:

Remember, this is from the guy who designed an actual +2 advancer, with a +4 marking on it, for Ted383/MotoFab.


Pete, if you want to promote your products then fine, do so. But don't run down the opposition or you will get an infraction.

We all know the history and all the bad feeling it caused on the OA, we don't want that kind of nonsense here.

Greentween
13th September 2012, 04:53 AM
I would like to add that if anyone does the timing light test, there is a term I would like to share with you : Parallax error, which is defined as "an error in reading an instrument employing a scale and pointer because the observer's eye and pointer are not in a line perpendicular to the plane of the scale".

Parallax error applies in this case, because when you watch the flash of the timing light on a ZRX, you may be kneeling on the ground looking downward at the markers. You cannot do this, you must be crouched lower and have your eyes directly perpendicular the markers. I think in my video's it was apparent that the camera lens was perpendicular and also allot closer than where you would want your eyes to be. This may explain why others see different results, and why only seeing their results by video we could judge they did it correctly.

BruceJ
13th September 2012, 08:32 AM
You are comparing Kwick advancer with the K-Tric disconnected to Ted's with the K-Tric on, hardly a fair comparison.

Anyway a wise man once told me, the naked eye cannot detect a two degree difference in adavancers, I wonder if he'll remember telling me that, or will I have to dig the post out on the OA

WRONG !!!!!!

Prior to disconnecting the K-Tric the comparison was done between the 2 advancers, otherwise as you have said, the comparison would not have been a fair one. However, I only learnt about the disconnecting of the K-Tric after the installation of Pete's item.

The reason why I did not bother about re-testing Ted's unit with the K-Tric disconnected was because of the difference I discovered when laying the two of them over the OEM unit and also over each other.

Oh yes....you CAN easily see the difference albeit being small. So maybe that wise man you are talking about has a knackered eye, not a naked one ;)

fatnfast
14th September 2012, 09:13 PM
As I have a natty little timing light that shows revs and allows you to set the advance in degrees, I thought I would do a compaison between standard and kwicks 4 deg advancer.
Aware of the parallax error (cheers Greentween), I was careful that I took my readings from the same position each time by resting the timing light on a jack. I was aware that I was not exactly in line but figured as these rotors are fixed the results should give a pretty good idea as to what the 4 deg one does.

1. On the stock rotor the F line gave 2.4 degs, the second T line coming in at 12.7 degs. That sounds about right then as the manual gives a figure of 10 degrees before tdc (parallax error on my part).
2. On kwicks rotor I had to crank the timing light up to read 8.1 degs for the first line, the second T line came in at 17.5 degs.
By comparing the two TDC readings I get 17.5 - 12.7 = 4.8 degree advance over stock.

I took several readings, swapping the rotors over a couple of times. They never varied individually by more than 0.5 degs.

I took these readings at 1100 rpm, which is the figure in the factory manual for timing. Are the US specs different as I think 1000 rpm was mentioned in the you-tube vid?

So my kwick gives me 4.8 degrees advance. The bike is definately crisper and starts more easily with this one and with no signs of pinking Im happy to leave it in.
Any thoughts from the experts, have I done this correctly?

I did try to video it, butmy son wouldnt let me use his ipad as he said there was to much dirt and oil around!!

KWICK
14th September 2012, 10:53 PM
As I have a natty little timing light that shows revs and allows you to set the advance in degrees, I thought I would do a compaison between standard and kwicks 4 deg advancer.
Aware of the parallax error (cheers Greentween), I was careful that I took my readings from the same position each time by resting the timing light on a jack. I was aware that I was not exactly in line but figured as these rotors are fixed the results should give a pretty good idea as to what the 4 deg one does.

1. On the stock rotor the F line gave 2.4 degs, the second T line coming in at 12.7 degs. That sounds about right then as the manual gives a figure of 10 degrees before tdc (parallax error on my part).
2. On kwicks rotor I had to crank the timing light up to read 8.1 degs for the first line, the second T line came in at 17.5 degs.
By comparing the two TDC readings I get 17.5 - 12.7 = 4.8 degree advance over stock.

I took several readings, swapping the rotors over a couple of times. They never varied individually by more than 0.5 degs.

I took these readings at 1100 rpm, which is the figure in the factory manual for timing. Are the US specs different as I think 1000 rpm was mentioned in the you-tube vid?

So my kwick gives me 4.8 degrees advance. The bike is definately crisper and starts more easily with this one and with no signs of pinking Im happy to leave it in.
Any thoughts from the experts, have I done this correctly?

I did try to video it, butmy son wouldnt let me use his ipad as he said there was to much dirt and oil around!!

You've done it correctly. Try another brand +4 and see what you get....you will find different 1-4 and 2-3 numbers more than likely, and they will not be anywhere near four degrees.

fatnfast
14th September 2012, 11:10 PM
Cheers Kwick. I was quite happy with the results, just wanted to make sure I did it right. Its a nice little mod :)

KWICK
14th September 2012, 11:17 PM
Cheers Kwick. I was quite happy with the results, just wanted to make sure I did it right. Its a nice little mod :)

...guaranteed :-)

mp
17th October 2012, 10:08 PM
So I am selling my rex11 motor,head skimmed 10",bg removed,zzr pistons,

on to a guy with a zrx 12 with a blown engine,stock ign.

What advancer would be best for him,4 deg one and could I disconnect his k tric as well ?

Also building a 1200 motor to go back in mine, head skimmed 10" , may remove bg ,zzr pistons, zx11d ign.

Could I run a 4 deg one in this engine and would you send them both on one p&p charge ?

cheers,mp :)

tiza5ive
17th October 2012, 10:49 PM
Kwick will be along soon with the full details - tho think ZZR igniters need the 2 deg version most others use the 4 deg K = Tric off on all types works well


more info here

http://kwickstand.net/Hyper-Formance.com/AdvancerMan.com.html

KWICK
18th October 2012, 12:46 AM
What pistons? stock or 12.5:1?
What ignition? ZX11D/ZZR1100D, ZZR1200 or ZRX?

Anyway, clik the link above also. :-)

Pal
18th October 2012, 12:47 AM
So I am selling my rex11 motor,head skimmed 10",bg removed,zzr pistons,

on to a guy with a zrx 12 with a blown engine,stock ign.

What advancer would be best for him,4 deg one and could I disconnect his k tric as well ?

Also building a 1200 motor to go back in mine, head skimmed 10" , may remove bg ,zzr pistons, zx11d ign.

Could I run a 4 deg one in this engine and would you send them both on one p&p charge ?

cheers,mp :)
With the ZZR ignition you need to run a ZZR rotor and he only sells a 2 degree version of that.
You need a 4 degree ZRX rotor and a 2 degree ZZR one.

mp
18th October 2012, 09:59 AM
What pistons? stock or 12.5:1?
What ignition? ZX11D/ZZR1100D, ZZR1200 or ZRX?

Anyway, clik the link above also. :-)

As I have already stated,1100 motor in 1200 frame will be on zx11d pistons,stock ign system.

1200 motor in 1100 frame on zzr12 pistons,zx11d ign system.

mp

KWICK
18th October 2012, 10:59 PM
With the ZZR ignition you need to run a ZZR rotor and he only sells a 2 degree version of that.
You need a 4 degree ZRX rotor and a 2 degree ZZR one.

I sell 2 and 4 degree ZZR1100/ZX11 rotors.

KWICK
18th October 2012, 11:03 PM
As I have already stated,1100 motor in 1200 frame will be on zx11d pistons,stock ign system.

1200 motor in 1100 frame on zzr12 pistons,zx11d ign system.

mp

What?
Two different motors?

ZX11D pistons, use the +4 for ZRX1100/1200

ZZR1200 pistons, use my +4 for ZX11D/ZZR1100

Again, IF you are going to run 12 or 12.5:1 pistons, then buy my +2 for whatever ignition you are running. Stock piston run my +4

exesspeed
19th October 2012, 09:05 AM
Hi

I've got the zzr 1200 prisons in my zrx with a skimmed head and barrels.

Iv tried stock and a 4 deg and a 2 deg im keeping the 2 deg one fited now.

Had it on the Dyno this week but im getting clutch slip at 7000 rpm in 4 and 5th gears on full throttle so i want get a proper bhp fig. But it runs really well with the 2 deg fitted.

Marky

exesspeed
19th October 2012, 09:08 AM
Oops got 143 at the wheel with a slipping clutch so more to come with an uprated clutch.

KWICK
19th October 2012, 04:28 PM
Oops got 143 at the wheel with a slipping clutch so more to come with an uprated clutch.

If your clutch is slipping with 143hp, you need new fibers. Buy the Kawasaki ones, they are the best.

The slave may need to be rebuilt, or the lever is an aftermarket one and does not let the piston retract fully.

But, often the slipping is the rear tire on the dyno roller. Run a gummier tire, a bit lower air pressure and/or have it strapped down properly.

mp
19th October 2012, 05:33 PM
What?
Two different motors?

ZX11D pistons, use the +4 for ZRX1100/1200

ZZR1200 pistons, use my +4 for ZX11D/ZZR1100

Again, IF you are going to run 12 or 12.5:1 pistons, then buy my +2 for whatever ignition you are running. Stock piston run my +4

Thanks for the info kwick.

Not going to skim the barrels on the 1200 motor,but I may remove the base gasket.

Very tempted to run the 4deg one.

mp :)

KWICK
20th October 2012, 03:42 AM
Thanks for the info kwick.

Not going to skim the barrels on the 1200 motor,but I may remove the base gasket.

Very tempted to run the 4deg one.

mp :)

If the motor pings, go with the +2, but try the +4. The more timing you can run on these motors, the better.

exesspeed
21st October 2012, 11:56 AM
Thanks for the info kwick.

Not going to skim the barrels on the 1200 motor,but I may remove the base gasket.

Very tempted to run the 4deg one.

mp :)

Hi MP

Ive a 4 deg one i can lend you to try out if you want but i cant sell it as its promised to some one if i do.

Marky

mp
22nd October 2012, 04:28 PM
Hi MP

Ive a 4 deg one i can lend you to try out if you want but i cant sell it as its promised to some one if i do.

Marky

No worries mate,gotta order one up for my 1100 engine,so might as well get

em both at the same time.

mp :)