PDA

View Full Version : Ivans Exhausts



big jamsie
18th January 2006, 08:21 PM
Does anybody happen to know if ivan (zrxoa) will ship parts (full akra) to the uk as his prices are far cheaper than anyone else ?

David W
18th January 2006, 08:33 PM
Remember that you'll ge thumped for import duty and VAT when it arrives though.

Straightline Racing seem to be pretty cheap for Akra's in the UK. www.straightlineracing.co.uk

Pal
18th January 2006, 09:16 PM
Does anybody happen to know if ivan (zrxoa) will ship parts (full akra) to the uk as his prices are far cheaper than anyone else ?
Yes he will ship to blighty, I got my POS Muzzy from him, very fast delivery and a very nice guy as well. There is a place in Southampton that imports his stuff (jet kits, block off plates) I think they are called SG motorsport.
Straightline do advertise a cheap price on the web, but going on past experience with them, I'd check that it is current.

Salop Dave
19th January 2006, 07:40 AM
:agreed:

i think you will find the price advertised is just a "ball park" price and the aactual current price will vary somewhat. surprisingly it almost certainly will vary in the upward direction!

I'm looking for a decent akra price at the moment, any other suggestions welcome.
:biggrin:

David W
19th January 2006, 09:11 AM
Legally if you advertise a price, you've got to stick to it. It's their responsibility to keep their website updated.

Holeshot Racing www.holeshot.co.uk are advertising full Akra systems for the ZRX1100 on their site for 450+VAT. Not sure which version but it must be worth a phone call.

Pal
19th January 2006, 12:47 PM
Legally if you advertise a price, you've got to stick to it. It's their responsibility to keep their website updated.
Not quite right Dave, if they sell it to you they have to do it at the price, but they are under no obligation to sell, so you can't force them to sell at the reduced price. I don't know why some firms bother with a website, they never update it or follow up contact links.

kcearl
19th January 2006, 01:43 PM
Not quite right Dave, if they sell it to you they have to do it at the price, but they are under no obligation to sell, so you can't force them to sell at the reduced price. I don't know why some firms bother with a website, they never update it or follow up contact links.


agreed, its the same with wrongly priced goods in a shop..theyre under no obligation to sell it at that price..

oldest marketing trick in the book..."oh it needs updating"...or "its wrongly priced"



:kcearl:

David W
19th January 2006, 03:43 PM
Are you sure fellas? I'm no expert but I bought an Omega watch for my Mum that I spotted as a bargain in a jewellers. When they ran it through the till it came out hundreds of pounds more expensive but the Manager told me they were obliged by law to sell it at the advertised price, not the 'till' price (and he was really pissed off at having to as well)!!

big swifty
19th January 2006, 03:53 PM
POS Muzzy

?????

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. The muzzy bashing around here is a bit tiresome.. . I've had 3 muzzy pipes on 2 different rexes, and they're nothing but quality pieces. Perhaps your bike is a garage queen that never sees dirt or gravel, but for some of us, who actually ride, maintenance and toughness is a criterion, in which arena Muzzy has it all over your precious akra, as well as making better torque, and equal top end power.

If y'all wanna spend a bunch more money for nothing but slightly prettier welds and maybe a couple pounds of weight savings, and make less midrange power (where it might actually get used), that's your business.

big jamsie
19th January 2006, 04:28 PM
Ok then Big Swifty muzzy has my vote but can u give me a price for a full- stainless with titanium can delived to scotland...... dont think so they are just to hard to get a hold of, or to expensive to import

big swifty
19th January 2006, 04:56 PM
Ok then Big Swifty muzzy has my vote but can u give me a price for a full- stainless with titanium can delived to scotland...... dont think so they are just to hard to get a hold of, or to expensive to import

Send me a PM, I have some ideas. ;)

Pal
19th January 2006, 05:02 PM
Are you sure fellas? I'm no expert but I bought an Omega watch for my Mum that I spotted as a bargain in a jewellers. When they ran it through the till it came out hundreds of pounds more expensive but the Manager told me they were obliged by law to sell it at the advertised price, not the 'till' price (and he was really pissed off at having to as well)!!
Yes, he was under no obligation to sell it to you or anyone, but as he did decide to sell it, he had to do so at the advertised price.

Purge
19th January 2006, 05:23 PM
In contract law, an invitation to treat (invitation to bargain in the US) is an action by one party which may appear to be a contractual offer but which is actually inviting others to make an offer of their own. The distinction is important because if a legitimate contractual offer is accepted by another, a binding contract is immediately formed and the terms of the original offer cannot be further negotiated without both parties' consent. An invitation to treat may be seen as a request for expressions of interest.

The clearest example of an invitation to treat is a tender (or bidding in the US) process. The party tendering out services is not obliged to sign a contract with the first party who submits a tender proposal. An auction may be more ambiguous. Generally an auction may be seen be an invitation to treat, with the property owner asking for offers of a certain amount and then selecting which to accept. However, if it is stated by the owner that there is no reserve price or that there is a reserve price beyond which offers will be accepted then the auction is most likely a contractual offer which is accepted by the highest bidder (Spencer v Harding (1870) LR 5 CP 561) .

A shop owner displaying their goods for sale is making an invitation to treat. They are not obliged to sell the good to anyone who is willing to pay for them, even if additional signage such as "special offer" accompanies the display of the good. This distinction was legally relevant in Fisher v. Bell 1961 1 QB 394 where it was held that displaying a flicknife for sale in a shop did not contravene legislation which prohibited offering for sale such a weapon. The distinction also means that if a shop mistakenly displays a good for sale at a very low price it is not obliged to sell it for that amo

TI GG RRRRRRRRRR
19th January 2006, 05:29 PM
and your point is ;)

Purge
19th January 2006, 05:30 PM
Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.

Muzzys produce less power, are heavier and are inferior in every functional way to an Akra. So are Kerkers, even more so.

If you're buying a Muzzy for cosmetic, budgetary or patriotic reasons, then that's your call. Just don't fool yourself that it is better performing than an Akra.

Pal
19th January 2006, 06:27 PM
?????

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. The muzzy bashing around here is a bit tiresome.. . I've had 3 muzzy pipes on 2 different rexes, and they're nothing but quality pieces. Perhaps your bike is a garage queen that never sees dirt or gravel, but for some of us, who actually ride, maintenance and toughness is a criterion, in which arena Muzzy has it all over your precious akra, as well as making better torque, and equal top end power.

If y'all wanna spend a bunch more money for nothing but slightly prettier welds and maybe a couple pounds of weight savings, and make less midrange power (where it might actually get used), that's your business.
I did back to back runs at PDQ's dyno on the same day with the Muzzy and an Akra. The bike was fitted with the Muzzy and fuelling was optimised for this set up, then i swapped to the Akra and with no other changes it made another 6 BHP and increased area under the graph. The akra weighs considerably less and is easy to remove fro oil changes. The two are the same price over here, which would you choose?

Purge
19th January 2006, 06:55 PM
and your point is

It's the bit highlighted in RED

;)

big jamsie
19th January 2006, 07:05 PM
To Big Swifty, Im all ears mate! all advice is welcome !

On a seperate note i would opt for a full muzzy b4 a full akra (if i could find one) simply because

1 Akras are generally overpriced because of the name (almost designer)
2 Kawasaki and Muzzy go together like lennon and McCartney

Purge
19th January 2006, 07:07 PM
1) You have to pay for the best

2) That's more 'designer' paying for the name

big swifty
19th January 2006, 07:10 PM
Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.

Muzzys produce less power, are heavier and are inferior in every functional way to an Akra. So are Kerkers, even more so.

If you're buying a Muzzy for cosmetic, budgetary or patriotic reasons, then that's your call. Just don't fool yourself that it is better performing than an Akra.

Horseshit. Try 132hp & 91 ft*#. No akra even comes close on that tq. #. Try 100hp at 5850rpm.. again, no akra makes 100hp until ya hit 6200rpm at least.

I will go dyno to dyno with your over-priced akra any day of the week.

And the 2# weight difference is meaningless (except that the header tubing doesn't get gravel dings as easily on the muzzy), just have a few less donuts, eh?

And you're right... akra's ARE ugly.

:argue: :biggrin:

big swifty
19th January 2006, 07:21 PM
it made another 6 BHP

I'm sorry, I do not believe this. 6 hp?!? That's a ridiculous claim... all well-set-up piped & jetted 1200 rexes make between 128 & 132hp. The midrange is more important anyway..

I have looked at dozens of ZRX dyno sheets on the OA board, and in person. Similar setups (no matter what pipe is on there... Muzzy, Akra, D&D, Holeshot, Hindle, Tsukigi, Yoshi.. whatever... I've had 4 of the above on my bikes.. ).. don't vary by more than 3 or 4 hp as long as the intake side is optimally set up. A 6hp difference is simply not possible.. the ZRX motor is not that exhaust sensitive.

I don't know what you did at the dyno that day, but you did NOT have the intake/jetting side set up optimally for both pipes.

:cool:

phoenix
19th January 2006, 07:24 PM
:popcorn:

;)

Lightspeed
19th January 2006, 08:25 PM
?????

Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. The muzzy bashing around here is a bit tiresome.. . I've had 3 muzzy pipes on 2 different rexes, and they're nothing but quality pieces. Perhaps your bike is a garage queen that never sees dirt or gravel, but for some of us, who actually ride, maintenance and toughness is a criterion, in which arena Muzzy has it all over your precious akra, as well as making better torque, and equal top end power.

If y'all wanna spend a bunch more money for nothing but slightly prettier welds and maybe a couple pounds of weight savings, and make less midrange power (where it might actually get used), that's your business.

Hmmmm . . .

A bit testy, are we? :baby:

Make nice, OK? :fluffle:


;)

TI GG RRRRRRRRRR
19th January 2006, 11:13 PM
It's the bit highlighted in RED

;)


:nerd: oh yes :doh:

;)

Pal
19th January 2006, 11:16 PM
I'm sorry, I do not believe this. 6 hp?!? That's a ridiculous claim... all well-set-up piped & jetted 1200 rexes make between 128 & 132hp. The midrange is more important anyway..

I have looked at dozens of ZRX dyno sheets on the OA board, and in person. Similar setups (no matter what pipe is on there... Muzzy, Akra, D&D, Holeshot, Hindle, Tsukigi, Yoshi.. whatever... I've had 4 of the above on my bikes.. ).. don't vary by more than 3 or 4 hp as long as the intake side is optimally set up. A 6hp difference is simply not possible.. the ZRX motor is not that exhaust sensitive.

I don't know what you did at the dyno that day, but you did NOT have the intake/jetting side set up optimally for both pipes.

:cool:
Are you calling me a liar?
I can post both dyno sheets. I had the Muzzy on for a while and it was set up for that pipe, I went to the dyno did another run with the Muzzy, swapped exhausts and did another run. 6 BHP difference straight out. PDQ is a highly respected tuning shop used by a lot of the board (Nick even used to turn spanners for Sheene) The Akra improved everywhere, top end torque midrange everywhere. I have no axe to grind, the Akra was simply better, I fitted the Muzzy because of the connection to Eddies race team, but at the time I wasn't prepared to take that much of a BHP hit when every other cammed 1100 in the country was making 130+, so I swapped to the Akra which is so much better in so many ways.

BTW If the Akra is just overpriced take a look at a superstock race grid and see how many other pipes you see.

Whitey
19th January 2006, 11:29 PM
I'm with Pal on this one.

Those Muzzy welds are a bit substandard aesthetically, whereas the Akra ones are just devine to look at.

They give me the horn.

big swifty
20th January 2006, 12:22 AM
Are you calling me a liar?
I can post both dyno sheets. I had the Muzzy on for a while and it was set up for that pipe, I went to the dyno did another run with the Muzzy, swapped exhausts and did another run. 6 BHP difference straight out. PDQ is a highly respected tuning shop used by a lot of the board (Nick even used to turn spanners for Sheene) The Akra improved everywhere, top end torque midrange everywhere. I have no axe to grind, the Akra was simply better, I fitted the Muzzy because of the connection to Eddies race team, but at the time I wasn't prepared to take that much of a BHP hit when every other cammed 1100 in the country was making 130+, so I swapped to the Akra which is so much better in so many ways.

BTW If the Akra is just overpriced take a look at a superstock race grid and see how many other pipes you see.

I'm not calling you anything, I'm just saying that you're mistaken on this one, and that it bothers me that you keep bashing a perfectly good product on the basis of a flawed test.

You may have attempted to do an unbiased test, but you obviously failed in some regard, because the numbers are not that different. You can post all you want, it's still wrong.

My 1200 made 131.7 hp and 91 ft*# with only 300 miles on the motor, and made 100hp at 5850rpm. I know for a fact that you can't show me an akro dyno sheet that equals that torque number or hits 100hp at an rpm that low. It may get 1 or 2 hp more up top, but AFAIC, that means essentially nothing in the real world.

Muzzy makes slightly better torque, akro gets 1 or 2 more up top.. you can look at a bunch of runs over at the OA that'll back this up, it's a pretty standard result. It all comes down to preference at the end, what performance preference you have, and aesthetics.

I owned a Hindle, the absolute lightest stainless system you can buy (8.5# without the can) and the light tubing got all dinged up from gravel. The full Hindle system weighs around 12.5#.. a full akro is about 14.5 (with a heavier can than the Hindle, therefore tubes are probably about the same wall-thickness).. full Muzzy is about 16.5. I wanted the heavier header tubing for a reason.

Superstock race grid has nothing to do with a ZRX motor.. they're running 13.5:1 compression in those motors with race gas, which makes for a rather more exhaust sensitive engine, and the headers are Ti 4-2-1 configuration, not 4-1 like yours.

I'll say it again, performance is about equal.. if you wanna spend an extra $200 for pretty welds and 2 less pounds, fine. Just don't go around saying Muzzy is a POS..

..and since you bring it up, you may recall that Rob Muzzy "turned spanners" for somebody called Eddie Lawson.. know who he is? :bye:

Pal
20th January 2006, 07:48 AM
If Akrapovic had 'made in USA' on them, would we be hearing a different story?
It's the same mentality that continues to sell POS Harley's

kcearl
20th January 2006, 09:54 AM
I'm sorry, I do not believe this. 6 hp?!? That's a ridiculous claim... all well-set-up piped & jetted 1200 rexes make between 128 & 132hp. The midrange is more important anyway..

I have looked at dozens of ZRX dyno sheets on the OA board, and in person. Similar setups (no matter what pipe is on there... Muzzy, Akra, D&D, Holeshot, Hindle, Tsukigi, Yoshi.. whatever... I've had 4 of the above on my bikes.. ).. don't vary by more than 3 or 4 hp as long as the intake side is optimally set up. A 6hp difference is simply not possible.. the ZRX motor is not that exhaust sensitive.

I don't know what you did at the dyno that day, but you did NOT have the intake/jetting side set up optimally for both pipes.

:cool:


nope cant agree swifty...hindles for one dont give the same figures (and it was a hindle dealers ours were set up at), my d&d was a full 6 ponies short of my akra figures (125 v 131), same dyno, same set up..muzzies just dont hit the same..all of our akra set up bikes are 130+...yoshi and tsukigi yup but not muzzies, how would you explain the huge jump? maybe different days or different dynos but not back to back..

couldnt care less about who spanners for who..we've seen the dyno charts

btw mate the claims to muzzy bashing here are a little dramatic..apart from this thread there not even mention except under the "fishing boat anchors for sale" forum ;)


:kcearl:

Pal
20th January 2006, 12:37 PM
Big Swifty
The thread from the OA when I dealt with this is here (http://zrxoa.org/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=55591&highlight=muzzy+down+on+power) you may well recognise some of the names, including Doug Meyer of Muzzy (who BTW goes very quiet after the dyno chart from the Akra goes up), I can prove to you that the dyno test was unbiased, but I feel you are the kind of person who would still argue in the face of irrefutable proof.
Some of our newer members may want to read the thread as well, just in case you were wondering where I got my 'diplomat' title from. :eyebrow:

TI GG RRRRRRRRRR
20th January 2006, 12:42 PM
.................................................. ............., just in case you were wondering where I got my 'diplomat' title from. :eyebrow:

I thought you bought it off ebay, along with your Earl of Farnborough title ;)

Pal
20th January 2006, 12:53 PM
To save people wading through the seven pages of thread (I think I touched a nerve or two) here's the dyno chart, same day, same dyno, same operator, same petrol, same tyre pressures, same cold cup of tea on the bench next to the dyno.
http://www.purgeraptor1.btinternet.co.uk/Pictures/PitStop/powercurve.jpg

REXER
20th January 2006, 01:25 PM
Looks conclusive to me.

Neither of them are made in our country so I guess we are unbiassed and go for the best :popcorn:

David W
20th January 2006, 02:28 PM
I reckon the Arata I'm getting will outperform both of them.... ;)

kawarex
20th January 2006, 02:59 PM
:baby: :hb: Much of a do about nuthin. Hindle bought for 100 mirror polished it and chuffed silly.Nice looking piece of kit IMHO. Pah!! 6 b.h.p.
Not worth much on the roads. rider, weight, tyres, suspension, knowing where you're going, :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: 60 b.h.p. :hmm: maybe.Turbo definatley.But 6 b.h.p. worth muchoooo more at the bar :mut:
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) If you need me i'll be in my air raid shelter awaiting the arrival of heavy ordanance!!

Tennis
20th January 2006, 03:46 PM
Round 1 to the Dog in the Shades

:popcorn:

:tennis:

big swifty
20th January 2006, 03:59 PM
Conclusive.. pffffft.

100hp @ 7k? Pretty lame if you ask me. Something wrong with your jetting on BOTH those runs.

Here's a real dyno run:

Pal
20th January 2006, 04:02 PM
Conclusive.. pffffft.
Here's a real dyno run:
Yeah, just think how good it would have been with a decent pipe!

Whitey
20th January 2006, 04:36 PM
I'm still with Pal.


I feel you are the kind of person who would still argue in the face of irrefutable proof.

Well, he IS American.

kcearl
20th January 2006, 05:06 PM
Conclusive.. pffffft.

100hp @ 7k? Pretty lame if you ask me. Something wrong with your jetting on BOTH those runs.

Here's a real dyno run:


Now this is a real dyno...and its only an 11 ;)



<cough cough>

Tennis
20th January 2006, 06:33 PM
So is this


http://tinypic.com/m9aqfs.jpg

Its also a ZRX, and suprise suprise its doing 100 bhp at 7k, what a pile o sh1te that must be

So obviously you've not seen a lot of Dyno charts, because IF you had you'd have noticed that most show around 100 hp at 7K.

(Note to admin can i use this emotion now? :hand; )

:tennis:

kcearl
20th January 2006, 06:37 PM
(Note to admin can i use this emotion now? :hand; )

:tennis:



nope obviously your incapable of using it ya donkey :mut:




:kcearl:

RHM
20th January 2006, 06:40 PM
Legally if you advertise a price, you've got to stick to it. It's their responsibility to keep their website updated.

Sorry, that's wrong.

A price advertised or shown on a website is legally an "invitation to treat". When you say you'll buy one at the advertised price, that's you making an offer to buy at that price and the retailer can choose to accept the offered price or not.

And I've just spotted that :purge: went into more detail :doh:

RHM
20th January 2006, 06:52 PM
Conclusive.. pffffft.

100hp @ 7k? Pretty lame if you ask me. Something wrong with your jetting on BOTH those runs.

Here's a real dyno run:

Erm, just out of interest, you'll note that Pal's is an 1100 and yours is a 1200?

Without any jetting changes and with just an Akra end can, my 1200 made 100bhp at around 6500rpm.

I'm waiting to see what it makes on a full Akra and rejetting.

Purge
20th January 2006, 09:36 PM
I will go dyno to dyno with your over-priced akra any day of the week.

Well, go do it then, as :pal: has.
You'll probably go into denial at the results.


Horseshit
No point discussing controlled testing with someone with a closed mind.

Goodbye.

johnnyrep
20th January 2006, 10:07 PM
2nd hand system
6000 rpm = 100bhp
pal is undeniabley correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bikesnoopy
20th January 2006, 10:12 PM
:popcorn: Im not even gonna tell you MY opinion on this one...its too exciting... :lol:

Usafric
20th January 2006, 10:19 PM
OK here goes with the dyno results:

Full Akro and Ivans jet kit, notice where the 100BHP is!!!

Purge
20th January 2006, 10:19 PM
Aw...goworrn, we always treasure your unbiased, anti-imflammatory, well considered and constructive opinions :lol:
;)

big swifty
21st January 2006, 02:28 PM
1. I didn't realize Pal's bike was a cammed 1100.. my bad. It appears we have been arguing apples & oranges.

Once you put cams in, the ZRX is a totally different animal, FYI.. the cams introduce a lot of exhaust sensitivity. My 1100 behaved very poorly with the Hindle once the ZX11 cams went in, after being fine previously. The Muzzy improved things a lot on that bike, perhaps an akro would have been better yet... IN CONSIDERATION OF THE HOTTER CAMS.

You should put the ZX11 pistons in, you'll get up near 138..

As far as I know, the best result anybody has been able to achieve with a cammed 1100, WITH the ZX11 pistons is 139, with a Yosh pipe.

2. All who insinuated that I'm making my points based on some sort of misguided patriotism either can't read very well, or are being deliberately rude. As I pointed out, I've had 4 different exhausts on the bike, only one of which is made in in the US. The best LOOKING one (and the best sounding by far) is the Tsukigi, but I put another Muzzy on because it performs better.

3. It's pretty funny, y'all posting 1200 dyno sheets that still don't hit 100hp as low as mine, as if that proved something. :D: .. the numbers yer posting for the akra-equipped 1200's look almost identical to mine, except mine makes more torque (by a couple), and yours make more peak hp (by a couple)... JUST LIKE I SAID IN THE FIRST DAMN PLACE.

SO, thanks for proving MY point, that the results are pretty much the same, and that you're spending the extra cash for looks.

kcearl
21st January 2006, 04:05 PM
naw swifty your wrong not 'cause you're a yankee but because on the cammed 11 the results are almost 6 horses difference as was said at the beginning...the two dyno sheets from 12s both hit 100bhp at 6 thou revs..same as yours..

you can always ask us what we think about guns that generally goes down well :mut:


:thumb:




:kcearl:

jooles
21st January 2006, 05:11 PM
my 40 vance & hines will do the lot of you :bum: :popcorn:

bikesnoopy
21st January 2006, 05:14 PM
My 50 Micron actually lost 1hp :lol: sounded good tho... :whistle:

RHM
21st January 2006, 08:57 PM
sounded good tho... :whistle:

Yeah, but that was just your opinion :lol:


;)

bikesnoopy
21st January 2006, 09:56 PM
. . . from where i was sitting it did anyway,honest. . . :mut: